Improve rigidity on the NB.

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Teejay187
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Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 09/15/14 @ 08:50

Hi all,

I am looking for more improvements to do to my 99 NB.

Here`s the list of what I have done so far:

GarageStar fender braces
GarageStar frame rails
Mazdaspeed front and rear tower braces
Poly bushes in the rear
V-Maxx XXtreme coilovers.

I am looking at buying adjustable end links and a set of sways as my next purchase. Anyone have any tips for what else I can use to stiffen up the chassis?
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 09/15/14 @ 09:11

Stitch weld............but thats if you want to get crazy
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby GeorgeG5 » 09/15/14 @ 09:21

underbracing from 01+/FL/Sport or whatever you call it. They had a few extras
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 09/15/14 @ 09:22

I`ll look into the FL parts, thanks. Any preference on sway bars and end links?
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby GeorgeG5 » 09/15/14 @ 09:32

nope, I have stock and would probably buy racing beat... I've looked into having them custom made, but didn't find a local company willing to do it
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 09/15/14 @ 09:37

Beatrush also does a slew of sexy nether region bracing
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 09/15/14 @ 09:38

There are a few that make cannon braces for the rear too
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 09/15/14 @ 09:43

Look into Carbing as well. Them and Beatrush make it all hella beefy.

image
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 09/16/14 @ 13:57

I have -some- bracing in the rear. Is the stock tubing a bit weak perhaps? I need to investigate it further.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 09/16/14 @ 15:17

It's good enough, but there are beefier, better constructed options, if you currently feel that you need more rigidity.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Mazduh » 09/18/14 @ 13:40

That strut bracing will likely do little to nothing for rigidity.

The beatrush 3 point braces that boxes in the rear subframe and ties the dif into it does wonders.

I love garagestar products but I'd opt for the fm frame rails so you can run their butterfly brace.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 09/25/14 @ 20:00

I have

garagestar fender braces
fm frame rails
HDHCSD
factory front strut brace
RB 1.125" fsb
msm rsb

My car feels as the s2k's I've driven. Stitch welding the doorjamb and A pillar is something I want to do eventually. It's not so bad if you've got a spot welder, and a powered wire brush. I did roll bar and frame rails at the same time, and felt the ride improve significantly on the highway, much reduced cowl shake, The fender braces nearly eliminate cowl shake, and improve the ride quality a little, and the turn in quickness a lot. Front fsb improved stability in sweepers significantly.

I've driven a friend's car, same car with just roll bar. You can actually feel a difference from it, car is a little more tail happy.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 10/04/14 @ 04:47

I`ve ordered end-links and sway bar brace kit from Racing Beat. If I like the upgrade, I might buy new sways as well. The car is very neutral and easy to drive at the current setup. How can I keep the neutral turn in with new sways? I guess I would have to buy the RB front sway and see what happens :phillyb™:
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 10/07/14 @ 23:13

Do you have any suspension work? Plan on it? If so, I'd hold off on the sway bars. Getting neutral handling, is more reliant on alignment. Reason for holding off on sways, is that stiffer ones basically make your suspension less independent on that end, and actually reduces grip. So when fighting body roll, you want to stiffen springs/shocks first.

With alignment, you want a little more negative camber up front than in the rear, and if the car is a bit tail happy at times, a little toe in in the rear (not exceeding 0.15 degrees, over that and it gets frightening at highway speeds, especially on grooved roads). Some people like a little toe out up front for more immediate turn in, but you'll chew up tires driving with that on the streets.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 10/09/14 @ 08:27

I have the standard V-Maxx Xxtreme kit. I plan to start with a mild sway setup, and then adjust my way into hell.

The suspension is really good right meow, both on road and on track. So I am guessing the tubular front sway from RacingBeat should do the trick.

I am running a pretty natural alignment at the moment, and I am by far the fastest with stock power. But at some point I will start experimenting. I found that tire pressure is really critical on the R888`s as well! So much to learn yo :suicide:
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 10/13/14 @ 04:14

Well, I've only been autocrossing on UHP street tires, so not sure how car will be on track with race rubber. But for me with just roll bar and frame rails, car was really tail happy. Adding on the fender braces, it was still tail happy, but turn in was noticeably quicker. Adding in 1.125" rb front sway made the car very neutral, and it was most noticeable in sweepers. As in where before I'd have to make small correction to hold the line, meow it'll take a set and hold it. I'm using stock rear sway, but msm rear sway is 14mm. If you don't already have a little toe in dialed in on the rear, do so, it really makes the car power out of corners more controllable.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/10/15 @ 18:10

I went to an autocross, track day kinda thing before the winter. I found the car to behave quite differently on a small track. Rapid transitions and lots of corrections. I had the best time of the day, but when I went all out I managed to flip the last cone. My time was two seconds faster than the previous runs, but I didn`t feel like I was in complete control of the car.

The body has too much movement as it is meow, but the movement also seem to help a lot in the corners as the camber increases. Kinda hard to describe. I am worried that if I stiffen up the suspension with new springs, or even new coilovers, I would ruin the good handling it has meow. It feels a bit wobbly in the slalom as the weight has to shift back and forth, but in the corners it just sticks to the road.

I am a bit torn between buying a new set of coilovers with 9k/6k ratio or new springs and roll bars. I currently have a VMaxx XXtreme coilover set with stock springs and FM sells a "track-pack" for these.

I am a bit clueless. I want to avoid buying my third coilover setup for the car, but on the other hand I really want to beat my time by at least three seconds this year.

PLZ HALP. I R NAB
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/10/15 @ 19:41

Teejay187 wrote:I went to an autocross, track day kinda thing before the winter. I found the car to behave quite differently on a small track. Rapid transitions and lots of corrections. I had the best time of the day, but when I went all out I managed to flip the last cone. My time was two seconds faster than the previous runs, but I didn`t feel like I was in complete control of the car.

The body has too much movement as it is meow, but the movement also seem to help a lot in the corners as the camber increases. Kinda hard to describe. I am worried that if I stiffen up the suspension with new springs, or even new coilovers, I would ruin the good handling it has meow. It feels a bit wobbly in the slalom as the weight has to shift back and forth, but in the corners it just sticks to the road.

I am a bit torn between buying a new set of coilovers with 9k/6k ratio or new springs and roll bars. I currently have a VMaxx XXtreme coilover set with stock springs and FM sells a "track-pack" for these.

I am a bit clueless. I want to avoid buying my third coilover setup for the car, but on the other hand I really want to beat my time by at least three seconds this year.

PLZ HALP. I R NAB


When fighting body roll stiffer srpings first, avoid stiff sway bars. Reason being sway bars actually reduce grip on the end they're installed on by making the suspension less independent. It's better to use sway bars as a tuning tool.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Skinny » 02/10/15 @ 19:47

What tyres are you running? Get something sticky first before messing with the bouncy bits again. Stiff and no grip and you wont have control.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/11/15 @ 01:37

I was on R888 last season @Skinny.

I guess I need new coilies then. I am maxed out on the Vmaxx kit in terms of shock stiffness, so new springs won't help..

I need to research kits and it seems like Yahoo auctions have a lot. Sadly there aren't any reviews I can read easily.

My friend has a set of Arogusta coilovers and I think I might try that brand. Did a passenger ride and it was handling really well!
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/11/15 @ 04:23

I believe Aragosta is a company started by ex Ohlins employees, so they're comparable. After a quick bit of googling, seems they used an older AST damper. Like what the Xidas used to use.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/11/15 @ 10:47

Seems like quality to me. I see them on Yahoo from time to time to a good price. I'll jump on a deal soon!
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/11/15 @ 18:54

Teejay187 wrote:Seems like quality to me. I see them on Yahoo from time to time to a good price. I'll jump on a deal soon!


What's a good price? Seems like since you run fm vmaxx currently, you've got no problems running, and shipping American products. Personally, I think the American products are the most well developed on this platform currently. We've got vendors who raced these things more, and at higher levels of motorsports than most of the world.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/12/15 @ 09:09

Are you referring to FCM? Personally around 2 grand is a bit steep since the Norwegian currency is 25% lower than it used to be 5 months ago. also I need to pay 25% import taxes. That equals half of my salary.

A good price would be 1500-1800 delivered.

I have researched revalving Konis, but I have no guide to get a good result. I want this to be the last time I buy coilovers for a while, but ending up paying over 3,5 grand is way too much.

What are my options then? I feel that Tein, Vmaxx, K-sport etc are not made specifically for the Miata and has obvious flaws in terms of damping and spring rate.

Also thanks for answering! :tits:
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/12/15 @ 14:55

We\ll yea, I was thinking fcm, xidas, or mcs being the most well developed. But yea, costs are really steep on all of them, especially so if you've gotta pay a premium to get them across the lake.

Maybe look into fortune auto? They'll valve to specified rates, and I haven't heard anything bad about them. But I haven't had any first hand experience with them either.

Also, you can always look into DIY, get some bilsteins, sleeves, and spring rates of your choosing. That's pretty much the goto budget performance setup.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/14/15 @ 16:32

Seems like I might read some more on the topic. Getting some Konis/Bilsteins revalved and get the other parts myself might be an idea. I need to find someone to do the relvalve job, and pick up some swift springs :)
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/16/15 @ 20:12

Depending on the spring rates, you might not even need a revalve right off the bat. Swift springs are great, but really pricey. If you need to save a few beans, check out this site for springs.

http://www.eshocks.com/hyp_make.asp
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/17/15 @ 06:43

Seems like I settled with the Maruha race coilovers. Will be here in a few weeks I hope :phillyb™:
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 02/17/15 @ 14:52

oh you fancy huh? What are the spring rates on those?
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/24/15 @ 09:29

Spring rates are 10 and 8 :phillyb™:
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 02/27/15 @ 06:40

Thats a great page @bigx5murf. If the 10/8 is too soft, I might buy a harder set :)
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 03/01/15 @ 21:41

My local friend just threw some godspeed coils with those same spring rates on his NA. That car is an oversteer monster without even getting to the limit. Car was straight up frightening in the rain.
The rear definitely feels too stiff, but shitty coils might play a role too. Same guy has a msm with ohlins in 9/6
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 03/24/15 @ 14:24

So time for a little update!

The Maruhas have been on for about 700 miles meow. They are as firm and sharp as I could ever hope for. The specific spring rate is 8/6. They are very neutral, but with a slight hint of understeer. I plan to get a beefier sway up front to see how it works.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 09/28/15 @ 15:44

Sway bar upgraded. Car feels very precise meow. meow I need better tires. The Potenza RE002 sucks ass. Sidewall flex is killing me on AutoX.

Another question. Could it be a good idea to check all the bolts for the roll bar and sub frame braces, and tighten them? When I open the door I can hear one squeak from underneath the car..
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby bigx5murf » 03/30/16 @ 21:32

Since I've last posted in here, I installed some garage star door bushings. WTF, I couldn't believe those could make a noticeable difference in stifness. But they definitely do! Get a set!

I loctite my roll bar on install, so idk. But can't hurt, won't take long.
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Re: Improve rigidity on the NB.

postby Teejay187 » 03/31/16 @ 13:25

Yeah, they do definitely work! I am thinking my next upgrade should be door bars. Also, I hope garage star will make a butterfly brace. Then my car would be complete lol
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